I would prefer not to speculate on the M20 abilities, honestly. Since I really don't know at this stage what exactly they intend them to represent. I mean, I can guess based on the titles, but that's really not enough for me to feel comfortable making a decision about whether or not they'd be valuable additions to the character sheet.
As for Archery, I am totally ok with choosing something else in its place. Initially I started with a list of 3 abilities which included:
Archery (or something similar)
High Ritual
Politics
(the latter two would involve moving Technology to Skills.)
The reason I ultimately chose Archery as my top pick was because 1: I think of the three it's the one that currently bugs me the most as far as how it's represented on the sheet, and 2: It involves the least amount of fuss.
Politics is totally an option though. Personally, it's my least favorite of the three, for a couple of reasons. As we play the game here on the site, Politics as a stat isn't very useful for mages unless they actually intend to get involved in local (sleeper) government. And for those characters who do take an active interest in politics, either mundane or awakened, there are other traits that cover political influence. Namely: Influence and Contacts. Interpersonal actions (diplomacy, persuasiveness, etc) are generally better suited to social traits, and lawmaking can fall under Law if we put it back in. But I can see the argument that macro-level political machinations don't really have a good stat other than "Politics." I can't say I really perceive there being a need for that? Just because, again, there aren't really any awakened politics to get involved with in Denver (unless your character has broader connections and wants to explore those.) But, then again, I could be wrong. Players come up with all sorts of fun and surprising ways to use skills. And I'm not like, adamantly against it or anything. So if people would prefer Politics, we can go with Politics.
High Ritual, on the other hand, is already allowed in the game. So we wouldn't really be changing a lot. It's just currently not on the sheet. The reason being that, at the time I made that decision, I figured it was a very specialized trait that probably not a lot of people even knew about - let alone wanted to take. So I stuck it up with those "optional additional abilities." However, unlike the rest of the abilities listed there, High Ritual is not specific to one Tradition. Do and Enochian aren't on the character sheet because they have limited availability. Anyone with an appropriate concept can take High Ritual though. So it might actually make sense to add it to the sheet. (Particularly since we're proposing to add Empathy, which is the other ability listed in the Guide to Traditions. I suppose if we add one, it wouldn't hurt to add them both.) And if anyone is wondering "why would I ever want to take this ability?" It allows you to bypass the Arete+WP limit on total successes with an effect. So, you know, it is actually quite useful for characters who like to cast larger, more involved and/or longer term rotes.
So yeah, those are two alternate options to adding an Archery skill, if anyone would prefer one of those instead.
As for Archery, I am totally ok with choosing something else in its place. Initially I started with a list of 3 abilities which included:
Archery (or something similar)
High Ritual
Politics
(the latter two would involve moving Technology to Skills.)
The reason I ultimately chose Archery as my top pick was because 1: I think of the three it's the one that currently bugs me the most as far as how it's represented on the sheet, and 2: It involves the least amount of fuss.
Politics is totally an option though. Personally, it's my least favorite of the three, for a couple of reasons. As we play the game here on the site, Politics as a stat isn't very useful for mages unless they actually intend to get involved in local (sleeper) government. And for those characters who do take an active interest in politics, either mundane or awakened, there are other traits that cover political influence. Namely: Influence and Contacts. Interpersonal actions (diplomacy, persuasiveness, etc) are generally better suited to social traits, and lawmaking can fall under Law if we put it back in. But I can see the argument that macro-level political machinations don't really have a good stat other than "Politics." I can't say I really perceive there being a need for that? Just because, again, there aren't really any awakened politics to get involved with in Denver (unless your character has broader connections and wants to explore those.) But, then again, I could be wrong. Players come up with all sorts of fun and surprising ways to use skills. And I'm not like, adamantly against it or anything. So if people would prefer Politics, we can go with Politics.
High Ritual, on the other hand, is already allowed in the game. So we wouldn't really be changing a lot. It's just currently not on the sheet. The reason being that, at the time I made that decision, I figured it was a very specialized trait that probably not a lot of people even knew about - let alone wanted to take. So I stuck it up with those "optional additional abilities." However, unlike the rest of the abilities listed there, High Ritual is not specific to one Tradition. Do and Enochian aren't on the character sheet because they have limited availability. Anyone with an appropriate concept can take High Ritual though. So it might actually make sense to add it to the sheet. (Particularly since we're proposing to add Empathy, which is the other ability listed in the Guide to Traditions. I suppose if we add one, it wouldn't hurt to add them both.) And if anyone is wondering "why would I ever want to take this ability?" It allows you to bypass the Arete+WP limit on total successes with an effect. So, you know, it is actually quite useful for characters who like to cast larger, more involved and/or longer term rotes.
So yeah, those are two alternate options to adding an Archery skill, if anyone would prefer one of those instead.
(02-17-2015, 01:31 PM)vesta Wrote: I'm definitely up for the first two.
The bit about ranged, I'm not quite so sure about. I guess because it feels a bit like splitting off a very refined set of skills into their own set of spots. I can see your point of it being a bit cheesy that they're rather different from running a marathon or climbing to the side of a cliff - but then those are two rather separate abilities that come under the same dots too.
Skimming over the M20 character sheet, Technology shifts over from Knowledge to Skills. If we did that, would there be another Knowledge that could take its place? Politics, which I'm guessing won't be amazingly different from V20's version. That would keep equal numbers in each column.
Or add Martial Arts in. Again it's a M20 thing, although it rather annoyingly doesn't crop up in W20 or V20. But it's presumably to cover trained hand-to-hand fighting (and martial weapons?), which might be a better slot for archery and thrown?
I'm really not saying I'm against adding in Ranged Weapons, by the way. Just wondering if there might be a better use for the slot.